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JAG Gonzales's avatar

"I have a joke: how do you get a liberal to change her mind? Answer: you can’t. It’s funny, I don’t care what you think."

Don't worry Max, I laughed at this and also appreciate the reminder of my lifelong rule to never get into debates/fights online. The people who like to do that are usually so entrenched in their positions that it's just a waste of time.

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Stefano's avatar

As an outsider looking in, it's always both depressing and hilarious coming to the conclusion that the problem epistemological, for it reveals the gravity and severity of our afflictions.

We need to return to being able to be honest and agree on truth, to change our minds and not be chastised by tribalism. Otherwise our ideologies and biases will invariably get a forced course correction from reality.

Even here in Italy and Europe (from what I read) it's impossible to have a non emotional and non ideological conversation about Gaza, Ukraine, Russia, DJT and America, immigration, race, culture, crime, LGBTQ, capitalism, socialism, social media, tech and AI. Our tribalism is tearing us apart at the seams.

It's like our entire body-politic, the social construct, it's not fit for purpose anymore.

Using the examples in the article, we're living downstream of a lack of justice in law and order, a lack of civil education and manners in culture. These issues have been decades in the making.

In your first example, the tragedy of stupidity and pranks, I'm not justifying the man's insane over the top reaction, but 11 year olds ringing someone's bell three times over 15 minutes at 11pm as a prank is just as absurd. Kids shouldn't be out after dinner, especially if they can't be responsible. Any repercussions for the parents? And the dude who shot the kids, the real conversation should be about the effects (if there) about if he was having a bad day because of work stress or taking meds or social media. To even contemplate shooting anyone should be an extreme act. But as a European looking at America, you people are insane on the issue of guns, both pro and against.

On the topic of race and racism, Fuentes might not be truthful on every detail and his own ideological biases do emerge, but on the whole he's consistent and speaks many truths. The problem isn't Fuentes or what he says, nor his biases. If anything personally I've found it to be refreshing to listen to him on occasion. The problem is what this reveals about us and our predicaments with the discourse of race. This is clear in both examples you provide. If every time a black person is laid off race enters the equation, then it's going to get ugly. The Shiloh Hendrix example marks another quickening in the pace of moving from "slowly slowly" to the "all at once" phase of collapse and doesn't portend well for the future. Law and order needs to be about justice and we've lost the plot on this. Europe has gone crazy in a "same but different" kind of way. The polling is indicative of the failure of dialogue to resolve issues and the consequences of this are terrible because then we shift from extremist rhetoric to extremist action.

On feudalism, Tucker in general is a psyop and is shifting the overton window. On the specific, the real conversation ought to be about predatory capitalism, the gutting of local economies because of financialization and the co-option of the state by private interests. But like with Fuentes, we're just not able to have substantive discussions without going full retard on ideology and tribalism. It never ceases to amaze me how people on the right both support entrepreneurship in one breath and then defend all the worst aspects of capitalism, because communism obviously.

Lastly on birthrates, besides motherhood and the rebirth of the feminine, until we have a conversation about the need to de-emphasize money and the problems of inequality, the trend won't reverse itself. All over the West we need to return to a society where each household only needs 1 worker earning money, through wages or entrepreneurship, for everyone in that household to live a decent life without anxiety or in poverty.

We're all victims of second wave feminism and its collateral damage, granted, but we're also victims of rogue capitalism and dysfunctional politics.

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