Discussion about this post

User's avatar
John of the West's avatar

There is something that gets forgotten in discussions about crime, and that is there are many different forms of crime. What we are seeing in more recent years, especially in the ghetto, is crime that directly attacks order. The mafia back in the day were not the sanitized, glamorized fiction seen in the movies, but there is some truth to the notion that they kept order in their communities as well. The reason for that was that they didn’t want to ruin the places where their families lived, and because they wanted to leave their kids with an opportunity at a life they didn’t have. This was the case even in some of the older street gangs.

On the other hand, when people go loot a CVS or something, it has a destabilizing effect on a community, and promotes disorder. It attacks the institutions that make life healthy, convenient, and possible. It is, sometimes literally, shitting in your own nest. It makes it so that no one can realistically engage in any kind of business that brings wealth and stability to a community. In short, it ruins it, and is crime against order. It’s not that there is some sort of urban terrorism from that, because there is no real ideology. It stems from the culture of apathy and ignorance that has won over order and discipline in America.

People tend to focus on abortion or LGTBQ issues as being the “culture war,” but the real culture war was the founding culture of this nation, versus the one which emerged in the 1960s. In the new culture, discipline and work ethic was seen as a vice, comfort was king/queen, and the only thing that mattered was doing what made you happy. There are pockets of the old culture holding out, but it is steadily failing, because the new culture is so seductive and erosive. The mafia was the crime of the old culture, while looting a store is a crime of the new culture.

I don’t have any real conclusion to put on it. I don’t think this is by itself enough to collapse the nation, but it shows the rot that these things cannot be dealt with. It also shows that no one is really willing to deal with it, because the cost is too high. Bernard Goetz probably single handedly cut the rate of violent attacks on subways, but ruined his own life in the process. That is another sign of the new culture, the sympathy for the devil, the embrace of evil. The Joker is the hero, while Batman and what he represents is pushed aside. Being “mean” is the most grievous sin. A culture that promotes disorder cannot also act against disorder.

On an historical time scale, this would be compressed down to a blip, an age where an old order faded away and a new and healthier one arose. It’s the period in between the two which won’t be so great. It doesn’t have to be a civil war, maybe just a time and place where you can’t count on anything, including the lights staying on. That would take a commitment to order.

Expand full comment
Brian Villanueva's avatar

Atlantic article unpaywalled: https://www.removepaywall.com/search?url=https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2024/10/shoplifting-crime-surge/680234/

There's a discussion in that article about a career shoplifter and drug abuser in Kentucky who got 20 years in prison for his latest shoplifting of several hundred dollars worth of stuff.

While I agree about treating crime seriously, my thoughts go back to a Frontline interview I saw years ago with a career prison warden (also in KY ironically): "We need to decide who we're afraid of and who we're mad at. If we're afraid of you or of something you will likely do, you belong here [in his max sec prison]. But if we're just mad you or something you did in the past, we need a different system."

I have determined I largely agree with this. I don't know what that system looks like. Maybe its a form of labor camp. For violent crime, El Salvador's approach makes sense. For drug-fueled property crime, perhaps we should look to Singapore's strategies. Some countries allow low-priority convicts to work in the private sector. I don't know. But that prison warden is right: jails are horrendously expensive places that should largely be reserved for the unrepentantly violent.

One thing that article does not talk about is something you've mentioned before: the use of private stores (ala Costco or SamsClub) to deter shoplifting. WalMart has a huge problem with theft; I doubt Sams does. I think you're correct that we should expect to see more of this. A world that refuses to make store safety a public good will end up with it being a private good.

Expand full comment
14 more comments...

No posts